Flip The Switch Episode 51: Q4 Prep

John Saunders
By John Saunders

PAT: Today on Flip the Switch. Amazon unveils an array of new smart home products based off of their Amazon Echo. We give a breakdown of what this means for the tech giant moving into Q4. Apple also unveiled their new iPhones as consumers lined up days in advance to get these. Our main discussion is around Q4. 3 of PDM’s e-commerce specialists join us to discuss priorities, tactics and expectations for the end of the year.

Let’s get into it.

01:08 AUSTIN: Welcome to Flip the Switch presented by Power Digital Marketing. This is episode number 51.

01:13 PAT: Number 51. our Ichiro Suzuki episode. That was an easy one man. Easy money.

01:19 AUSTIN: Wow. look at Mr. 3000

01:20 PAT: I had Bernie Williams Queued up as well because it’s September, getting into playoff time so get in the playoff.

01:25 AUSTIN: You know what I love about Ichiro is that he just stretches now. He just has these crazy machines and he’s just always stretching

01:31 PAT: Always getting better just like we are always trying to… that’s not really a good bridge but we do have some awesome business news and trends to go through with you guys today. Really excited.

Our main topic — If we want to give a little information about that…

01:42 AUSTIN: I was just about to say, cause I’m so excited. Q4 today, we’re talking all Q4 and we pulled in some individuals from here at Power Digital that are really smart. Much smarter than all of us combined in this room, I have to say.

01:53 PAT: Speak for yourself.

01:54 AUSTIN: John just gave me a look like there’s no way that’s true.

01:56 JOHN: Come on, man. Come on.

01:58 AUSTIN: I’m sorry. I know I’m putting myself down there. But I will say it’s really, really great stuff and I think you’re all gonna like it.

02:04 PAT: Absolutely.

But moving into some business news and trends to look out for. The first company on our list today is — surprise, surprise — Amazon.

02:12 AUSTIN: Amazon is once again reinventing the wheel with what we’re doing in our homes. So with smart devices they’ve really staked their claim there with Alexa. And now what they’re doing with Alexa is just integrating it into more devices into your home. So what they want to do is pretty much have that voice coming out of every appliance in your home. So whether that’s a microwave, whether that is — I think that they’re looking to put it in your car — all sorts of things like that so it’s gonna be all over the house and your vehicle.

02:42 PAT: Yeah, so I mean this was all unveiled at Amazon’s hardware event. Which was super interesting and I think speaks to the fact that they saw such a niche with this with this offering and have taken over so much of that market share relative to like Apple Home, Google Home, right?

They’re expanding that product line and there is a ton of stuff with this that’s gonna end up just boding better for them in terms of overall revenue. So they have like a newer Echo Dot, one for your car, a sub, a live recording FireTV recast which’ll be cool. An Echo show, ring security cameras

03:20 AUSTIN: You know what I was just thinking too is that Echo sub looks a lot like Apple’s home product.

03:23 PAT: Yeah

03:24 AUSTIN: I believe it’s pretty much the same design. so it’s basically like a cylinder… if you’ve seen Apple Home of course that one’s white I believe, but this one’s black like their color scheme.

But I would assume that this is probably a direct combatant of that device. Plus the price point is I think a third of the price so this is coming in at 130. I believe that Apple home is close to 400.

03:45 PAT: Yeah and that’s so typical for Amazon. We’ve talked about it like 20 times on the show, but they’re gonna go in here with a competitive offering, cut down the price because they can afford to do that until they gain enough of the market share to push a competitor down and then just raise the prices.

They do this across any vertical where they take over new business, like with Whole Foods, they do this… I mean, they’re doing this right now with some of these Echo devices so that’s interesting.

I actually saw this as an opportunity for them. It’s just more touch points that Amazon has in your home to make them ingrained as a daily part of your life. Like that’s really what it is to me. I think that they’re just doing an outstanding job of familiarizing people with their devices and their offerings, to the extent that it’s just part of their normal day-to-day. Like that you’re gonna rely on Amazon devices for everyday activity. Listening to music. Getting directions in the car.

And I’d bet money, all these devices allow you to shop directly on Amazon with voice search

04:38 AUSTIN: Yeah that’s the biggest thing I think you’re really on to Pat is they want you to immediately… well maybe subconsciously not even be thinking about where you’re going to purchase it. It’s just going to be with Amazon.

So this is just a direct line for Amazon to get to you to make sure that you buy their products on their e-commerce website all the time. So they’re giving you that ability to order it just by talking to your device. By saying “yeah Alexa order me more Tide Pods.” First thing that came to mind. And that’s exactly what they’re looking to do.

I’m curious to see what the impact is on their overall revenue. So what percentage of their revenue are these products driving? Or is this really just that catalyst because we know that their main business is their e-commerce website, right? Is this supposed to be more of almost like a marketing play? That these products, these smart devices are really good for their brand to maybe get more people to come to the site?

05:34 PAT: Yeah I think that it’s a little bit of that lead gen side of it, right? So somebody who may not even like Amazon as a company may like listening to music through speakers in their home, right? Maybe this is the one that fits their price point and their needs the most closely and they like that it’s voice-activated.

So that familiarizes them with the brand. They see the quality that it’s able to offer at a competitive price point. And then that’s almost like a lead gen source for Amazon to funnel them towards more brand loyalty.

I think that’s super interesting. Some of that you’re touching on too, moving into Q4 and I’m really interested to see how these products perform relative to like the Apple Home devices and Google Home devices just because, Amazon kind of has paved the way for innovation in this industry they’re continuing to do so and you know it’s just gonna be another revenue stream for them during one of the most competitive times of the year.

06:21 AUSTIN: Yeah and on Prime day, just backtracking a little bit, they sold 1 million home devices in one day. So that’s quite substantial. I would assume probably with their upcoming Cyber Monday, Black Friday deals we can probably expect similar numbers, if they’re gonna… that’ll probably be higher since they have more available products

But as you can imagine, everyone out there, Amazon is going to make a lot of money off of this. They have such competitive pricing that and the product is actually really good from my understanding so it’s really hard from a consumer standpoint to choose anything else. I think especially if you’re more of an individual that can associate with a more… not such a high price right?

07:08 PAT: You’re price sensitive.

07:09 AUSTIN: Someone that’s not gonna spend a lot of money. This just makes so much sense because you’re getting such a good product

07:14 PAT: Totally agree with you.

Speaking of good products, moving into our next piece of business news and trends here… Apple. So they recently released their two new iPhones, the XS and the XS Max. They went on sale today, so Friday. Tim Cook has actually stopped by the Palo Alto Apple Store as the new phones went on sale to greet people and stuff and hear consumer feedback. Like anybody would tell him that the phone isn’t good to his face.

07:40 AUSTIN: Can you imagine going to Tim Cook, “hey, what the hell’s going on with this XS man?

07:45 PAT: “Hey when are you gonna actually innovate the product man? You’re just calling it something new.”

07:49 AUSTIN: “You’re not Steve Jobs.”

07:50 PAT: But in all seriousness this is pretty pivotal for Apple moving into Q4 and there’s a couple reasons why. The first one being that when they released the new iPhones at the higher price point they made more money. So we speculated about that a little bit, I thought they were gonna take a hit, because the price point was way higher than what I believe the intrinsic value of the product and that actual offering is

08:10 AUSTIN: Yes.

08:11 PAT: But that just wasn’t the case. And it was the first time they’d ever priced a phone at $1000

08:16 AUSTIN: Yeah.

08:17 PAT: If you look at these price points, they are both comparable to that. You have one for like $999 one for $1099. And I think that the fact that they’re releasing these going into Q4 is crucial for their overall company revenue this year. In the sense that they’re gonna do a ton of business during Q4, you know? Like I really see this being a driver of massive amounts of revenue for them. And I’d expect to see their share prices go up as a result of that.

08:41 AUSTIN: Yeah, we know with Apple that the phones are their number one driver of revenue as a company. And typically they see growth in what that is driving year-over-year. So the amount of money they’re making on the iPhone has grown every year. It did last year but the interesting thing I think that we saw, and we talked about this last year, was that they didn’t necessarily sell more devices, I believe. But they increased their price point so they made more revenue.

And I’d love to see the margin on this and what they’re making because clearly this is an extremely profitable product and they’ve kind of figured out the formula with that margin, but for them what they want to do is get those number of transactions, the total amount of phones sold, they want to get that back up.

So with these devices, they’re gonna want to… they’re looking to that in every way possible. We know obviously in the fourth Quarter that’s gonna be their largest time to make that. So what can Apple do to make sure that people buy their phone as much they have in the past and maybe more?

09:39 PAT: Yeah exactly. In my mind, the thing that’s gonna help them with unit movement… like actual units of products being sold at a higher volume than before they need to innovate the product more, right? I think a big complaint around the last iPhones was just that it’s a higher price point and people weren’t really seeing anything that’s new about it. That’s worth the $300 price spike or whatever it was. Or $200 price spike.

I think with this there’s a little bit of added functionality, but I kind of see that being a lot of the same though. I don’t necessarily see any huge innovations with the new product aside from the fact that it looks a little bit sleeker. Looks a little smoother. Probably works a little bit faster. And I think in today’s competitive smartphone market, it’s just not really going to get them that type of unit movement that they need.

But looking at the price point, they’re banking on that, right? If you’re looking at the price point this is basically Tim Cook and Apple saying, “hey we know that we’re gonna be able to move enough product at this price to the masses of super loyal Apple customers.” That it’s not gonna end up mattering. They’re still gonna make more money on this

10:43 AUSTIN: And their cheapest phone now becomes around $700, so that’s the discounted version or maybe this stripped-back model. I believe it’s a little bit smaller.

But that alone is very interesting me to me because they’re clearly doing a substantial amount of forecasting. You’d expect them to you on what the pricing should be, so they make X amount of dollars. So you can imagine that they have kind of a percentage of what they feel comfortable hitting in terms of revenue based off of their product and they’re pricing that accordingly to make sure they fall in that bracket so to speak or that time-line.

And for Apple the biggest thing is—as we talked about—growth so they need to keep making more money off their iPhones. That is the point of releasing a new model every year is that they’re gonna keep making more money.

Because they have shareholders that they have to keep happy. And they have a share price that they need to keep going up.

11:35 PAT: Yeah, they just reached a trillion dollar valuation. So expectations are high.

11:37 AUSTIN: It’s unbelievable. Extremely competitive for them and there’s a method to their madness, I think. And why they don’t give everyone the new features immediately. They understand that they have to keep giving something new every year. So they probably have the technology but they’re not gonna give it to us all once because then they have nothing in two, three, four years, right?

So it’s definitely a fascinating time for Apple. How do you maintain being a trillion-dollar company? I have no idea, but I’m very interested to see if they can continue to keep this going because it’s quite the run

12:10 PAT: Exactly. That’s why we’re gonna be watching Apple and Amazon so closely. These are two trillion dollar companies. We need to see what they’re doing to maintain that valuation.

I’d really wonder who is gonna slip under that valuation. Between the two of them, it’d probably be Apple

12:26 AUSTIN: Yeah we cover these two companies so much because it’s never been done before in the history of business and humankind. What they’re doing as a company is on the forefront of technology as a human race. They’re constantly giving us things that we’ve never had before. As humans. And in turn, of course, they’re the richest companies in the world.

But it’s truly a test case for us and we’re constantly learning from these innovators, from these companies and that’s why we follow them so closely. What they’re doing is always new. It’s an uncharted territory for business and really as humans with what they’re giving us. This technology. So I think that we were excited about it and expecting big things as always.

13:07 PAT: Couldn’t agree more.

All right guys, moving into the main topic now. We’re gonna discuss Q4 strategy and what things you need to be prioritizing right now to make sure that you hit those crucial numbers that we just talked about.

All right you guys, so with us to talk through some of the things you should be keeping top of mind going into Q4 we have one of our senior SEO strategists, Sarah Stevens. Sarah how you doing?

13:30 SARAH: Hey Pat, how’s it going? Hey guys.

13:32 PAT: It’s going pretty good.

13:33 AUSTIN: Really excited to have you on.

13:34 PAT: Yeah, we’ve been meaning to have you on for a little while. Sarah has a ton of experience working with some very huge brands that have run massive Q4 initiatives and she has a breadth of knowledge about it. So we wanted to tap into that and bring that to our listeners a little bit.

So diving right in—from your perspective—what are a few high priority things that need to get solidified right now?

13:54 SARAH: I mean right now it’s all about planning and if you’re doing anything for SEO and you’re gonna do a landing page you got to do it now. Frankly, you’re a little bit too late, but rather get it up now, get some juice going. You want to get some organic rankings and this can be as simple as, “hey we have a sale coming up. Come back in two weeks to find out the details.” And we’ve done that for a couple clients. It works well you get some keywords going.

Obviously, they’re gonna all be Black Friday oriented. Everybody wants that Black Friday deal so you should give people what they want.

14:22 AUSTIN: Yeah. And I think a great thing about that is that equity is pretty much forever as long as that page is live, so it’s not just that one-time thing. So next year you’ll have more authority on that page, right? And the year after that you should have more authority. So if you put it up now it’s actually gonna help you, benefit you in the long term as well. So something super important to think about.

14:38 SARAH: For sure and awesome. That’s a great point. If you guys go to any big, econ site like Target, Nordstrom, they all have these pages that are up all the time. They’re just hidden until they’re ready for Black Friday to come out. So they’re gaining that equity and authority year-over-year

14:51 PAT: That’s interesting. And then one question I had too, you know everybody is giving crazy deals on Black Friday, Cyber Monday. What does a brand need to do to stand out and actually have their offer be more potent?

15:02 SARAH: I mean it really comes down to what you’re doing now in October and even September in terms of what you’re testing. You got to get your audiences dialed, so if you’re running any ads, you want to do all your testing now. You want to know what audiences are gonna convert for you. You don’t to be doing that in November. When your CPCs are gonna be way higher.

And then it’s also getting ahead of that, so if you launch a new ad, especially in anything on Black Friday, you’re gonna be too late. It’s gonna take the algorithms way too long to figure out what you want. And we’ve seen this happen even when we launched new ads on Cyber Monday. You want to launch let’s say a couple days before.

There’s not as much noise that’s out there and then you get your ad really well fine-tuned and so come the day of the big sale you’re ready to go and you’re kicking ass.

15:45 PAT: That’s awesome. Love to hear it. Well Sarah thank you so much for imparting some of that wisdom and appreciate you hopping on the show.

15:53 SARAH: Thanks guys for having me.

15:56 AUSTIN: Next up we have Antonio Johnson, VP of client success here at Power Digital. Antonio has a very strong background in client relationships. He works with a lot of large e-commerce brands so he’s got a lot of insane knowledge about what to do in the fourth Quarter. The question we’re gonna be asking you Antonio is from an agency perspective what are a few things that an agency should be doing to make sure their clients are positioned extremely well for Q4

16:21 ANTONIO: Right. That’s a really good Question. I think the biggest thing for the agency side here regardless of how invested you are how many channels you are managing for the client. It’s just really being a resource for them. I mean the clients will be running around like a chicken with their head cut off in this fourth Quarter. to say they’re going to be stressed is gonna be a severe understatement so the best thing you could do is try to help them lay out that roadmap as early as, September, October and make sure they’re crossing their T’s and dotting their I’s.

This could come along the lines of understanding what your advertising budgets will look like in November and December. This can be as big as looking at those long tail keywords on the SEO front and trying to make sure you’re going after those starting in September so that you’re having some good equity build-up through the holiday season.

and it’s also making sure they have all their ducks in a row in terms of shipping deadlines, promotion calendars, and exactly how are they gonna manage that transition from Thanksgiving week into Cyber Monday and then subsequently throughout the rest of the year.

17:18 PAT: That’s a really good point that you bring up about like the shipping logistics side of it too. because if you’re advertising free shipping as part of a USP and so many people are gonna be online during Black Friday, Cyber Monday that are potentially new customers for you that if you don’t deliver on that promise that might have been the USP that they click through your ad, or looked at in your meta description, or whatever it might be to get to your page, they’re likely not coming back. So it’s a really good chance to make a first impression. You’ve got to make sure you’re organized with that

17:43 ANTONIO: Yeah, no. I think that’s a really good point. I mean people tend to see Q4 as this huge opportunity for upside. Which it is, without a doubt. I mean we’ve seen that year after year. We’ve seen that increase year-over-year.

But it is also an opportunity to fail. Let’s be realistic about the situation. If you go out there and you’re making promises you can’t commit to. And you’re not sending a cohesive message to your following, it’s gonna turn out bad. You’re gonna be exposed to a lot more new people and you want that—to your point Pat—that first impression to really hit home.

18:13 PAT: Absolutely.

18:14 AUSTIN: And then from a C-level perspective, what is kind of their take on an agency or in terms of expectations what are they looking to you for maybe as a KPI to come out of this season?

18:24 ANTONIO: Right so I mean I think if I’m a CEO—putting myself in that shoes—I want to be working with an agency that’s going to be aggressive and creative throughout this time. I think every year over the last five ten years as we’ve gotten to Q4 here, we’ve not only seen the buying period expand over time. That is, people are purchasing and starting to do their shopping sooner and sooner in the season. We’re also seeing newer and more creative ideas coming out, such as having a year-round Black Friday page capturing emails that way. And even doing near-term promotions for each day as you go through Thanksgiving week.

So I think it’s all about really making sure you’re pushing an aggressive position when working with an agency. Making sure they’re holding themselves accountable. And also making sure they’re thinking outside the box and it’s not just business as usual, as it was last year because we all know things do change.

19:11 PAT: Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more. Antonio, thank you so much for your insight, man. It was great having you on.

19:15 ANTONIO: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

19:16 PAT: All right, you guys. With us now we have Ryan Larkin. Ryan is a technical director of paid media here at Power Digital. He has a ton of experience running ads during Q4 and we want to dive a little bit into like the technicalities of getting ready for some Q4 success. So like we talked about, Sarah kind of set the stage with that. You know, things are more competitive in Q4. To Antonio’s point earlier too, it’s more important that we really deliver in Q4.

So I want to nail down with you like on the paid media side what’s one thing that as an advertiser you need to be doing right now to make sure that your client’s up for success in Q4.

19:54 RYAN: Yeah, that’s a good Question. And definitely salient for this time of year, right? So one thing that people should be doing right at the gate is setting up their marketing audiences. You know, that’s gonna be huge not only from Google ads being… Facebook, right? You’re gonna want to get that data. That’s gonna be really valuable going forward—and to the point that Sarah made—you’re gonna see CPC spike and when you pay for those clicks you want to make sure that they’re as relevant as they can be.

So being able to use that audience in conjunction with search for RLSA having two points of intent is really going to make sure that you get the most bang for your buck. Especially if you have really large audiences. If you’re like a JC Penney or a big corporation or a company that has a lot of products and a lot of monthly site visitors

20:47 PAT: Right. So that I’m understanding too, you’re talking about setting up audiences that have been to the site for… viewed specific products or maybe behavioral metrics. when should all the testing for the audiences be taking place to make sure that you’re serving to the—to your point—the most high intent ones? In Q4?

21:03 RYAN: Sure. Right now.

21:07 PAT: Easy. Perfect.

21:08 RYAN: Yeah. No. Yesterday, honestly. You want to be testing out your audiences constantly. Especially from social perspective, I think with AdWords it’s definitely important for YouTube and display obviously but for Facebook that’s really where they make a lot of the revenue yeah is being able to test different audiences.

So if you don’t have that dialed in today, you really need to get on that.

21:32 PAT: Yeah.

21:33 AUSTIN: I have a quick question about budgets and kind of ramping up and testing. What is a maybe like the size of a testing budget look like based on when you’re actually running the campaigns? Is it a pretty small sample size, I would assume? Or what are you running?

21:46 RYAN: So I mean that’s gonna vary wildly. That’s gonna depend on site visitors first and foremost so if you have a website that gets something to the tune of a thousand visits a month, right? That’s not a lot to test against.

However if you’re a big company with, again, a vast array of products and you’re selling… like lots of revenue coming in per day. Maybe you get like a hundred thousand or more visitors to your site. You know you want to put aside a healthy budget so you can test against various audiences.

22:20 PAT: Right. Because there’s just more people in each audience type, so if you’re getting more segmented, you want to be able to test those segments against one another and see what’s doing the best.

22:28 RYAN: Totally. And on that point of testing different segments—especially as we head into the holidays, I think it’s important to note the time between somebody visiting the site versus time of purchase. So it’s really critical—I think especially as we come into kind of Q4 here—to know how long people are purchasing after they first visit your site. So you can look the time lag report in GA so if you see a ton of people converting after day one, two or three or whatnot. You can set up those audiences accordingly. And in the later days of November, during Black Friday, Cyber Monday, things like that—the efficacy of an ad within the first 1 to 4 days is gonna be inherently way more valuable than somebody that’s been in your marketing pool for like 20 to 30, you know what I mean?

23:24 PAT: Yeah

23:23 RYAN: So it’s important to keep that in mind and when we talk about testing, that’s something we need to test against as well as the time decay of somebody visiting your site

23:32 PAT: Awesome. All right, one last question. We don’t want to go too long with this, but like a hot topic in the advertising community right now is like YouTube ads.

23:40 RYAN: Sure.

23:41 PAT: What role do those play and Q4 strategy if any?

23:46 RYAN: Yeah, it’s… video is so hugely important these days, and it is such a great brand introducer. It’s something that we’ve been talking about internally here at PDM is the fact that YouTube is now showing up in organic results. It’s almost easier to rank position 1 on YouTube than it is position 1 organic search, right?

So that plays a big part if you can capitalize on that real estate that’s huge. People are looking for product reviews via YouTube more than ever.

24:18 PAT: So it’s informational and a little bit more top of funnel which you would say.

24:22 RYAN: For sure. Absolutely. That being said a little bit of ad dollars for YouTube can go a long way right? We’re seeing CPVs—cost per views—of 5 cents so you put 10 to 20 dollars a day behind a really well produced video featuring your product and showcasing it in a unique way. Maybe a little funny. Attention-grabbing. That can really lend itself to being a great first touch point of view for someone who may not be familiar with your brand or product

24:56 PAT: Right. And then so you would have that kind of towards the beginning of the month and then get some of those people in the funnel, get them familiar and then—to your point from earlier—remarket the hell out of them and get those Black Friday purchases.

25:07 RYAN: And that’s a great point and I think that what my strategy is, going into Black Friday things like this, is excluding site visitors when I’m running YouTube ads. Because I want these to be brand new people and I want to give them a really fresh piece of content with a lot of replay value right off the gate to kind of get them engaged with our brand, right? So if you can really captivate an audience with that kind of material from the get-go I think that bodes well

25:40 PAT: Awesome. Ryan thank you so much for hopping on, man. We appreciate you being on the show.

25:42 RYAN: Absolutely. Thanks guys.

25:48 AUSTIN: Thanks to our three e-commerce specialists here at Power Digital for coming on the show. Very valuable information and I think we have a few takeaways but the biggest one I was thinking about is planning. If you aren’t planning for this fourth Quarter well in advance—So August, September, before that even—then you’re probably not gonna have as successful of a fourth Quarter as you would have expected or wanted so I think that’s probably one of the bigger things I was thinking about.

26:16 PAT: Totally agree. My biggest takeaway was on the competition side. So like we even talked about it a little bit with the paid media side of the equation. CPCs rising. When CPCs go up it’s because competition is higher. Sarah talked about it too. Because everybody has a big sale. Because everybody needs to do well in Q4. So what are you gonna do as a brand to stand out? What are you gonna do as a brand to make sure that all of your ducks are in a row and that you are set up for success in Q4?

It gonna come down to your promotions. It’s gonna come down to your USPs and it’s gonna come down to how savvy your advertising is in—my opinion—just because it’s so competitive.

26:52 AUSTIN: And to Antonio’s point as well. With the amount of competition that is around this time is the creativity is also extremely important. Everyone is going to be matching you in budget, right? If you’re going to be competitive, that means you’re spending as much money as your competitors.

But what the big difference maker is gonna be is what you’re doing with those dollars. It’s up to you to decide what the person sees, right? They’re seeing your ad what is it? How does it make them feel? What are the words on the page? What’s the offer that you’re giving them in that ad to make them convert on your website?

So all these things. You’re gonna want a competent agency to be backing you because you need experience in these situations to say what works, what doesn’t. You might have a fantastic idea, but you don’t have any data to back it up. That’s why you hire an agency, right? Because they fifteen, ten years of experience of seeing things that do work.

27:42 PAT: Totally agree. Like if I’m a business owner, I care about being consulted through Q4 as opposed to just getting a bunch of yes-men to execute on what I think might be a good idea

27:51 AUSTIN: Absolutely.

27:52 PAT: Want to leverage that experience and definitely again thank you to the three experts that came in and spoke with us today. A lot of great insight.

That wraps everything up for us today on episode 51 of Flip the Switch podcast presented by Power Digital Marketing.

Join our forum group. We have a private page on Facebook called Flip the Switch podcast forum. We will add you as soon as you request us. Post a ton of great content there, but until next time guys, this has been Pat Kreidler, Austin Mahaffey, John Saunders and Joe Hollerup, signing off.

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John is the Director of Web Development at Power Digital and thrives on the balance between creative and strategy. Using his experience in CRO, John approaches website builds with the user in mind, combining psychological and technical aspects of design.